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Stringify and Evohome vs IFTTT

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IFTTT is great, but quite limited. I'd like to set an IFTTT applet (previously called a recipe) that triggers an Evohome quick action to turn on the heating whenever the outside temperature falls below -2C, but only on Thursdays. (Too complicated to explain why I want to do this.) But in IFTTT, you can only have one "IF" condition, so you can do this every Thursday (regardless of the outside temp) or every time the temperature falls below 5C (whether it is Thursday or not), but you can't have a double condition (IF X AND Y).

Stringify is a service similar to IFTTT, except it allows multiple conditions and multiple actions. So, it would seem to be the answer I need, except it does not seem to have Evohome integration. It does, however, have other Honeywell heating systems. Does anyone know if Evohome integration is coming?

Or has anyone worked out how to link Stringify to IFTTT? (ie, set up the multiple conditions in Stringify, with the action being to trigger an IFTTT applet which turns on the heating with Evohome)

Evohome temp Logging

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Hello! I am new to evohome. Everything is installed from me 3 months ago. 1 evohome touchscreen, 8 of HR92, 5 of T87RF one in each room for temp sensor, 1 HWS.
Everything seems to work ok except of some signal losses but restored from its own!

My only concern is about logging temps and set points!
Previously i had a netatmo single thermostat and the logging was absolutely fantastic!!it was logging temp, set points and the time of boiler on!
It is disappoint a so much more Advanced system not to have any kind of logging in the app or a site!

Is there any easy way to log temps, set points and boiler on timers? The "python's" way is to complicated but even if this the only way is there any walkthrough for beginners?



Regards

Evohome set up - question

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Hi All,

I'm about to install evohome in a property I've just renovated and in need of some advice to check I've chosen the right Evo home elements.

Setup: I've got UFH on Ground (2 zones), First (2 zones) and 2nd Floor (1 zone).

There are two manifolds: 1 ground; 1 first.

I think I need:

UFH controller x 2;
Actuators MTX x 6;
Evohome base controller;
4 x Yxxxx thermostats (1 for 2 zones GF; can you use Lyric thermostats as a single zone controller?) they look nice than the others...
I've got an unvented cylinder but I don't think there is a place to put the temperature sensor.

Really grateful for any thoughts if this is correct setup and if I've missed anything.

Thank you.

Honeywell old Evohome with RFG100 gateway

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I am led to believe (but can find no details) that the older (black and white) Honeywell evohome can be linked to the RFG100 gateway. Does anyone know if that is true and if so how to do it? Yes I know I could upgrade to the colour version, but see no other real need to do so. I also know about the newer one with wifi, but having read that it is not compatible with the wall mount of the older versions then that is not an optimal upgrade either.

Mourning the demise of motor-open / motor-close valve actuators

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Am I alone in regretting the changes in recent years to the availability of simple motor-open / motor-close (MOMO) valve actuators for domestic heating systems? The principal benefit of these actuators over spring-return valves was that they do not close unless instructed to do so by the control system logic. A valve only needs to close if another valve is open. However, there has been a move to standardise actuators so that the electrical connections are now similar to those for spring-return valves. As a result, the main benefits of the MOMO valves appear to have been lost and the valves always close when there is no ‘open’ command.

I am a keen hobbyist, rather than an industry professional, so I do not install heating systems very often. The previous installation in my house used Sunvic SM5205 MOMO actuators and those lasted many years with no problems. I have just had a new system installed in my home, to incorporate a modern condensing boiler, and I specified that MOMO valves should be used in the new system. The controls use the Evohome package, with which I am very pleased. (I use zone valves but do not have any HR92 TRVs.)

However, the only MOMO valve actuators that I can find on the market now are designed to mimic the behaviour of spring-return valves. My system now has the Sunvic SZM 1801 actuators. Their wiring is such that it has a ‘demand’ wire, which causes the valve to open when that demand wire is live and to close when it is not live. There is no ‘do nothing’ option.

What has changed?

MOMO valves comparison table v3.jpg

So what’s the problem?

The new design of MOMO valve actuator is inferior because:
• It incorporates control logic that closes the valve in the absence of an ‘open’ demand, whether the valve needs to close or not, thereby limiting the options for system control logic (i.e. only two options: ‘open’, ‘close’ with no ‘do nothing’ option);
• It creates inefficiencies by requiring a boiler bypass to be used for the boiler and pump overrun period, rather than rejecting boiler heat to the last zone that was demanding heat before the system shuts down;
• It cycles the valve bodies hundreds of times a year more than is necessary, creating unnecessary valve wear; and
• It incorporates electronics inside the actuator which is in a hot and possibly humid atmosphere, reducing reliability and longevity.

With the new actuators, every zone valve closes once its heating demand is satisfied, whether it needs to close or not. The installer of my new boiler incorporated a standard boiler bypass arrangement, which he dutifully lagged very thoroughly (and therefore does not reject much heat at all). When the final zone’s heating demand is satisfied the zone valve now closes so that the system is totally closed and the boiler bypass is forced open by the pump. The pump overrun continues for a few minutes circulating water round the short circuit with very little heat loss, all rather pointlessly and unproductively.

On my old system, when the system stopped calling for heat, the boiler would simply shut down, all the valves would stay where they were, and the pump overrun would operate for a few minutes to cool the boiler. In the summer, when the only ‘zone’ that was required was the hot water (DHW), the DHW valve would stay open for three months, with all other valves closed and the boiler and pump switching on and off when DHW heating is required. The old control system logic only gave a ‘close’ demand to a zone valve if another valve was open, ensuring that there was always at least one zone open when the pump was running.

Now in the summer, with the new actuators, my DHW valve will cycle about three times a day (i.e. about 250 times in the season) totally unnecessarily. In the winter, the final heating zone to close as the house warms is a large one (my ground floor). I have used the Evohome controller in my new system. This cleverly learns the heating characteristics of each zone and punctuates the heating demand accordingly. However, that means that my final zone to be satisfied is receiving little sips of heat as it nears its set point. With the new valves and controls, the zone valve closes every time the heat demand ceases. The boiler bypass opens instead. Indeed, as the sips of heat get less frequent as the zone nears its set point, I notice that the return water temperature is low and could be used much more effectively to cool the boiler than using the bypass. It is wholly counter-productive to close this zone valve when no other zone requires heat. What I really want is for the final zone valve (which might be the DHW) to stay where it is and let the boiler shut down and use the final zone for its pump overrun.

Why has the design changed?

I suspect that Sunvic has changed its design to make it more attractive to installers. The wiring is now identical to the more common spring-return valves. Indeed, these MOMO valves now behave like spring-return valves, so there seems very little benefit in using them. The key benefit – that the valve stays where it is unless it gets a positive signal to move – has been lost. Of course, professional installers are the main market for manufacturers. Hobbyists on this forum, such as me, are a tiny market by comparison. I guess installers value simplicity so that they can diagnose problems quickly and recognise the wiring arrangements immediately. I assume therefore that Sunvic is trying to compete with the more common spring-return valves by making the installers’ lives easier and thus make it more likely that installers will recommend these actuators to their clients. A cynical view would be that installers care much less than their clients whether a valve and its actuator will last two or twenty years. They are also unlikely to be persuaded by engineering elegance over pragmatic simplicity.

What’s wrong with that?

I am disappointed if that reasoning is correct, as it means that the manufacturers are focusing on the requirements of the installers, rather than the end user. I fear that the actuators are now much less reliable (as they have electronics inside) and do not allow for good logical system control (i.e. valves close whether they need to or not). There is a keen critic of Sunvic who has a very comprehensive site showing the failures that now occur in these new Sunvic actuators with electronics inside them:
http://www.seered.co.uk/sunvic.htm
His commentary includes: “…..older designs of motorised actuators used in housing often worked reliably for 20 or more years, yet the new 'improved' designs failed within a few months or years.”

Sunvic is now trumpeting the environmental benefits of the MOMO valves. Given that it has eliminated the other benefits (operational flexibility; low valve wear; reliability) it has only this rather weak benefit to claim. A spring-return valve uses only about 6W to hold it open. Even if the actuator were energised permanently, the cost of the electricity would be only about £6 per year, which is hardly a key factor when designing a heating system for which the operating costs will be many hundreds or thousands of £ per year.

Can you not incorporate logic circuitry to overcome the problem?

I have incorporated logic into my heating control system that tries to defeat the automatic unnecessary closure of the valves. I have noticed suggestions from other hobbyists on this forum for bespoke circuitry to achieve similar results. But, in essence, I have used a standalone boiler relay (i.e. not a Honeywell BDR91) to interrupt the permanent live supply to the valves, thus stopping them from closing. I have used relays with multiple poles (one pole (switch) for each zone valve) such that the power supply to the zone valve (grey wire) is live only if (a) the boiler has heat demand (i.e. another zone is demanding heat) or (b) this zone has a demand for heat (the brown wire is live). The relay switches the grey wire between permanent live when the boiler relay is active and the brown wire when the relay is dead. Purists will point out that this is poor circuit design, as the boiler relay momentarily interrupts its own power supply when it operates. Relays with insufficient latency may therefore flutter. My relays seem to work satisfactorily however in this configuration. (I can post a circuit diagram if that is of interest.)

This arrangement is satisfactory in leaving open the final heating zone when demand for heat ceases. The boiler and pump can therefore overrun through that final zone. The DHW valve will stay open throughout the summer in this arrangement too.

So do you still have a problem?

I still regret that the valve actuators are being unnecessarily complicated through the incorporation of internal electronics which make them less reliable and less flexible for the end users (rather than for installers). I do prefer the simple mechanical MOMO valves which can be used with simple control logic. I can still get some SM5205 actuators from old stock (ebay and others) so I will swap out the newer ones that my installer provided. I regret that the modern MOMO valves are likely to fall further out of favour if they become unreliable. Their principal advantages of long reliability and low valve wear are being lost and so it will be increasingly hard to justify using MOMO actuators.

Perhaps I am just an old fogey mourning the passing of the old ways. Or does anyone else here share my regrets?
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RF Controllers with Evohome

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I want to use RF thermostats (eg RF2 pack) as the main temperature gauge for some of my zones rather than the evohome TRV.

Is this possible before I go and buy a couple? I don't need control, just for temperature.

Ideal Vogue using Opentherm to set pump speed or modify Pump Modulation to minimum

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Hi Paul,
Having noticed your status of AutomatedHomeLegend and the fact that you have struggled with an Ideal Vogue and Opentherm setup I wondered if you might be able shed some light on a problem that has defeated me so far.
I have an Ideal Vogue System boiler controlled with a comprehensive home brewed microprocessor control system with processor controlled thermostats in most rooms of the house with a VB front end. These are all on a two wire serial network similar to Opentherm but obviously not using the same protocol . The system operates Danfoss 24v thermally activated valves on the radiators as well as monitoring outside temperature, light level and controlling fans, lights, X10 etc.
My problem is that I have two Myson fan assisted plinth heaters in the kitchen and I am getting insufficient flow through them to drive them effectively, even if they are the only radiators active at the time. Initially if the system turns on with no other open radiators then the error No Water Flow appears on the screen, if I crack open another thermostatically controlled radiator then the message does not appear.
The connection to the heaters is 28mm (6m) from the boiler, splits into 2 x 22mm (4m) one of which then splits into 2 x 15mm (5m) one of which then feeds the two 15mm connections to the plinth heaters.
I should mention that prior to the installation of the Vogue boiler the system ran perfectly well on a 35 year old GlowWorm 40/60 boiler.
What appears to happen is the modulating pump which starts off at a maximum of 80%, after a number of minutes drops to 50% and is not providing sufficient flow through the plinth heaters. Why does it never run at 100% is another question in itself.
The output temperature takes some understanding as well, it would be nice to be able to disable all the not very effective burner and pump modulation but that would be pie in the sky.
I contacted Ideal tech support who suggested I should use an option on the menu screen for Pump Speed Override it transpires that mine was a very early Vogue boiler that did not have this option, as I imagine yours must be too. His only solutions was ‘to live with it’ or replace the controller and screen display, he could not quote a price of doing this and was not at all sympathetic to my problem.
As a last resort unless you have any other suggestions is that I am considering building an Opentherm interface and use that to control the pump speed, do you know if that option would be available via that interface?
G.

What is the impact of running modern boilers at less than minimum rating

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Trying to get my mind around understanding the design constraints of modern modulating boilers.

I have a home brewed system where each room (apart from the toilet which has a thermostatic valve) has its own room stat and associated heating profile with specific temperatures at different times of the day depending on the day, season, outside temperature or unoccupied. There is no overall house thermostat. The radiators are fitted with 24v thermally controlled valves. Hot water is controlled just like a radiator.

There are 12 radiators of which only 7* are typically ever in use and even then at totally different times during the day, there are many times when only one radiator is open and that radiator may well be below the minimum rating of the boiler 3.9kw in my case.
Kitchen* - 1kw plus 2kw , Dining room* - 1.3kw, Lounge* - 2.8kw, Bed1* - 1.5kw, Bed2 - 1.1kw, Bed3* - 0.9kw, Bathroom* - 0.87kw, Toilet - 0.3kw, Study - 2kw, Workshop - 2kw, Sun Lounge - 1.5kw, Hot Water 3.2kw. As you can see the boiler will spend most of it's time running at less than the minimum rating.

The Kitchen plinth heaters are currently on a permanently open connection with the power to the fans controlled when heat is required this provides a bypass function for the boiler which is not strictly needed as the boiler is never activated unless a valve is open and in the interests of economy will like to control as per the other radiators.

With modern modulating boilers is there any reason why only the burner would be modulated say down to whatever heating is required even as low as 1 or 2 kilowatt and the pump not be modulated at all just manually adjusted to ensure adequate flow through the furthest and highest radiator say in a three story house.

My current boiler an Ideal Vogue S18 (running at it's maximum temperature of 80 deg) does not seem to be coping with this setup at all well, 4 of the radiators are fan assisted and getting sufficient flow through them is proving problematic. My 35 year old cast iron sectional boiler worker perfectly, is this a case of modern is definately not better.

What impact might this be having on the boiler.

Is this the case that I have made my system too sophisticated for the boiler to handle.

Evohome DHW overshoots

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Hello all,

I'm investigating some random DHW overshoots that I get with Evohome.

Basic setup: Evohome (obviously!), no CH valve, DHW valve controlled by BDR, boiler fired by BDR, DHW kit.

See below:

dhw-overshoot.jpg

As you can see, overnight the cylinder is cooling, then the set point kicks in in the morning. At this point, the cylinder doesn't heat, but I assume this is because it's not quite hit the 5C hysteresis I've set. Eventually (around 7am in this graph), it does, the valve opens, etc. Then... WTF happens at 8am??? And then the same in the evening. Cooling cylinder until around 8pm when the valve opens, then at about 9pm something odd happens.

This doesn't happen every day. It can work just fine for 7-10 days, then randomly do it. In this case, it's done it twice in quick succession.

Any ideas?
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What water and overnight set-back temperatures do you use?

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The title says it all, really.

What temperature do you have your DHW cylinder set to? Are you using open vent, sealed or pressurised?

What temperature do you have your CH overnight set-back set to?

Evohome Thermostats randomly setting to 5 Degrees C

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So I have a new evohome and a few of thermostats randomly set to 5 Degrees C

The connection seems good and it's the same 2/3 thermostats that do this.

Any idea?

Thanks

Evohome hot water 'off' settings

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Does Evohome use a proxy temperature to model the 'off' setting for the hot water (DHW)? I ask because my DHW has just cut in, even though it is scheduled to be off until 1700 hrs. The Evotouch is still showing "Off" but the DHW temperature was showing as 4oC. (The mains water is cold in Scotland in February!) That makes me wonder whether the DHW has a default minimum temperature of 5oC to model the 'off' setting, like the room zones use 5oC as their proxy for 'off'. Evohome has just taken it upon itself to heat my DHW until it showed 24oC and now it has turned off again. I have a large cylinder which was still supplying usable hot water throughout. (The DHW temperature is measured at the bottom, of course, and there was still hot water above the sensor. My setting is 58oC when 'On'.) How can I inhibit Evohome turning on the DHW when I don't want it to? Otherwise I will never get my teenagers out of the shower. (I ration their hot water to one full cylinder only!)

Best budget solution for gas CH and also electric UFH in different zones on one house

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Hi guys, I hope its not too ignorant of me posting a "how do I start" type of email but think that ever so often a round-up of the market from a group of people with good knowledge and experience is great to read.

I had an OWL Intuition-C set up in an old small house which I have uninstalled and is available to use if needed.

I am now in a 5 bed 15 yr old house with single zone gas CH, however it has a large 13x6metre kitchen extension on the back (with a huge glass orangery roof and total of 10 frames of bifold doors [2x5]) and this is completely heated by 2 zones of electric underfloor heating (2x OJ Microline MCD-2 controllers).

I wish to have:

remote control of heating, especially of any boost function, after which it returns to default settings

some sort of weather optimisation, preferably from both ground or external temperature as well as internet weather forecast, especially re sunniness of forthcoming day - I would have thought orangery-type rooms were so common these days that someone must have sorted this sort of optimisation?)

reasonably user friendly for SWMBO / family (although they are all pretty technosavy)

as financially good value system as possible

What do people suggest - I don't think the OWL will sort underfloor heating and it would only give one temperature as a boost temperature as timer and thermostatic functions were sort of combined?? (An acceptable economy would be to leave the far zone MCD-2 as is)

Many thanks for any advice, Phil, Crewe, Cheshire

Proportional Control Honeywell

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I would like to use Honeywell Y87RF2024 Stats as Sensors in my Living areas as Rads are covered and HR92s will be also covered

One of the Advantages of HR92s is proportional control Will they still use this if using an external sensor as above

Thanks
mylesm

Tado vs Wavin Hep2o Underfloor Heating

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Installed my 7 TRVs on Saturday and the process was pretty seamless but for one of them being unable to calibrate. Seems to be a unit problem rather than the radiator as another unit worked fine first time.

One issue I have is that I have a Wavin Hep2o underfloor heating system in the main room. Back in November one of the reps told me in an email that I should be able to get someone to install a tado to control the underfloor by wiring "directly to a zone valve".

Now, I have no idea what that means but now that I have a tado thermostat I asked how it could be installed to control the underfloor and I was told it couldn't be. I have gone back today saying that I was told it could be but not heard back yet.

Anyone any suggestions? Can it be done?

Upgrading Existing Zone Valve System

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Hi

I wrote before about upgrading my existing 3 zone heating system to Evohome I have 3 Heating Zones with a Zone Valve associated with each one no Hot Water zone

The System I was playing with before I have now installed in my Daughters Apartment and it works great 3 Zones all with HR92s and Evocontroller as Temp Sensor in Living room Zone

I am now going to do my own system I was wondering how to deal with existing Zone Valves if I decide to go all HR92 Route do people normally latch them open or wire them into Boiler Demand Relay so they always open when Boiler is on

Or if i decide to keep zone valve on one zone with a Temp sensor for that zone can this be done

thanks
mylesm

IFTTT And DHW temp

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Hello

Is there any way to control the temp of DHW with the App IFTTT? What I want is to have always hot water! Not to configure time for switching on the hot water but when the temp of the water is below let's say 40 C then to heat up the water in tank until it's 60C and so on!

Regards

For Sale: Underfloor Electric Heating Kit 2,85 sq m, 1mm thick ! Off Evohome system.

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I have for sale small (2.85 sq m) electric underfloor heating kit (2.85m x 1m) which I had installed in our small kitchen. Im doing open plan kitchen/diner hence it won't be needed anymore. I had it running with Y87RF2024 connected to Evohome Controller via BDR91 with no problem, as its total power is well withing 5A rating (around 2A). The kit consists of:
1. 2.85m x 1m wide Ecofilm 160W/m. Can be cut in length and is less than 1mm thick.
2. Cut to size vapour barrier with 10cm overlaps - aprox 1.20m x 3.20m
3. Manual Underfloor Thermostat with temperature floor probe BYC12. Can be set to sense air/floor/air&floor
4. Barrier Pro X Tape
Perfect for small projects without raising floor level as standard thick heating! 65 quid including P&P. Grab a bargain :)

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Evo WiFi Controller - Active TCP Sessions

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Just had a need to do some work on our Internet Router (a Draytek) and noticed the Evohome Controller had over 300 active connections to the outside world.
Seems a lot so I powered down the Controller and then let it run again for half and hour.
Active TCP sessions above 200 again - all to the same host IPs but that many simultaneous connections? (204.141.57.101, 12.149.218.73 port 443)
It must be swamping the Host Server.

Anybody else confirm this via their Internet Router ? (NAT table or Data Flow Monitor)

T87RF2033 Thermostat

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Am I right assuming that if I have more than one T87RF2033 I do not need an individual relay for each but can bind them to the same one? Hopefully yes, otherwise I could end up with a cupboard full of relays?
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