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Random Niggly Issues

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Now the novelty has worn off with my Evohome and as G4RHL has pointed out, I leave my Evo to get on with things and it ‘just works’. I have had a couple of niggly random issues.

All my radiators are set to go to 10c at 22.30.


Last week my bedroom radiator somehow was overridden to 20 degrees and was on all night. I cancelled it on the main controller when I got up (before the next setpoint.) I do recall that when I drew the curtains going to bed and tucked them behind the radiator that the rad was warm (but not hot) which was unusual as opt stop has usually kicked in and they are generally cold.
Earlier in the evening (around 19.00) I boosted the sitting room by 1 degree on the app but cancelled it again around 21.30. I didn’t touch the app or controller after that.
Hubby swears blind that he did not touch anything – I do believe him as he would rather just moan that he is cold rather than touch any technology.

Second niggle was this morning. I boosted the bathroom rad manually and cranked it up to 22c. It worked ok but when I checked after a few minutes the override symbol was not showing on the HR92. I checked the controller and that was fine – it did show the override.

evoHome / boiler cycle settings

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Dear all,

Many thanks again for helping me getting started with evoHome a few days ago. evoHome has had a few days to learn and so far I'm duly impressed. I've set up temperature logging with evoLogger - many thanks to all of those having put in hard work into getting the evohome module for Python done (and then also sharing them out to everybody)

There is one question I could do with a little bit of help for, please. Recap - I have a Worcester Bosch Greenstar 24RI boiler with an open-vented system for HW and CH. evoHome is talking to the BDR91 as a boiler relay, which will operate the CH valve, which in turn will fire the boiler. I don't have the HW kit (yet). I've set up optimum start / stop. I'm pretty sure I haven't double bound the BDR91 by accident. I deleted the previous binding, before binding it once as a boiler really in evoHome.

I have four HR92s already fitted, with another four arriving next week.

Like many others I have noticed that the boiler is on much more often since evoHome is "in charge", but for much shorter intervals. I'm aware of the explanation in other threads - it's probably TPI (which I've read the white paper on). I like the analogy that was given in another thread - once you've reached 70 mph in your car you then don't floor it to maintain 70, but instead apply "small doses" to keep the speed up.

My question is around the cycles / hour. The evoHome controller help menu says "refer to the boiler manufacturer". I've been up and down the WB installation manual for my boiler, but it doesn't talk about cycles per hour.

It's currently set to the default 6, with a default on time of 1 minutes. I've definitely seen the boiler come on for 1-ish minutes multiple times once rooms were up to temperature, probably just to satisfy a low heat demand through TPI.

However, I also have a three-minute default pump overrun (controller by the boiler). So every 10-ish minutes, the boiler might come on for 1 minute, then the pump runs for another 3 minutes.

I have also found a passage in the WB manual that says the boiler needs 45 seconds to get the flame stabilised.

So now I'm wondering what I should set the cycles / hour and the minimum time to.

As the pump overruns by 3 minutes, I wonder whether 6 / hour is too much. I'm tempted to reduce down to 3 / hour. As the flame needs 45 seconds to stabilise, I'm also wondering whether I should set the minimum on time to 2 minutes.

I'm wondering what the long term effects are of the valves operating, plus the boiler firing potentially every 10 minutes for 1 minute at the default settings.

So I guess my questions really are:

1) does anybody have any recommendations with regards to cycles / hour and on times for this particular boiler?
2) based on what I have described above, does it sound right to change to 3 cycles / hour with a minimum of 2 minutes on time?
3) am I worrying too much about long term effects? Should I just leave the system to do what it is designed to do and stop worrying about it?

Many thanks in advance, please let me know if any clarification needed

Martin

Evohome override issue

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Over the last few nights i have been watching my evohome setup.

Its going into local override without anybody touching it ....
It claims to be happening on the panel (according to the graphic) but nobody has been near it!
The thermostatic valves aren't showing the icon, so they haven't been touched either!

I'm completely stumped

HR92 battery contact problem

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Had an interesting problem tonight.

I made a manual adjustment to the bathroom HR92 using the knob on the top, it started to turn for about a second, the backlight then went really dim (but not off) for a second then the motor stopped, the display went completely dead and the unit became unresponsive...

This HR92 is still on its original factory supplied batteries and has reported no low battery warnings and last time I checked was showing 2 bars on the battery indicator. It's about a year old.

I took the batteries out and refitted them and it came to life but it only showed a single bar on the battery indicator and the backlight was still somewhat dim. I tried taking them out and putting them back again - same problem.

Because it felt like there wasn't much "spring" in the battery contacts when I was closing the shorting strap across the top of the battery compartment I decided to try tensioning the spring contacts at the bottom of the batteries. If you remove it from the radiator you can actually get at the bottom of the contacts with a small screw driver from underneath and gently push them up a bit and bend them to give them a bit more spring, so I bent them up about 2mm.

I then put the batteries back in and could feel the obvious increase in springiness as I was clicking the shorting bar into place at the top - this time it booted up to show 2 bars of battery life as it should, the backlight was normal and everything seems fine again.

So it looks like the battery contacts at the bottom had insufficient tension on them... interesting in light of another post I will be making in a few days! ;)

So the moral of the story is if your HR92 batteries don't seem to be lasting long at all in a particular unit, check the springiness and tension of the contacts below the batteries! There should be some movement and springiness to the batteries when you close and click the shorting bar at the top. If it just feels like it has come to rest against the batteries but not pushed them down a couple of millimetres, the contacts have lost their tension.

Controlling wet underfloor heating

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Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone has thoughts on how better to control a wet underfloor heating system? Has anyone any thoughts on how to analyse the rate of fall and then engage the boiler before the temperature dips below the heating threshold? Our ground floor is a wet UFH system which is buried into a 50mm liquid screed, so at the moment it takes around 40mins from point of heating engaging to room temperature rising. In addition, the room temperature keeps rising for around 2hrs after the boiler has disengaged, so again the rate of rise would need to be analysed and then boiler disengaged before the temperature reaches its set point.

Thanks,
Nad

Questions for potential new Idratek install

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Hey, great forum here!

Apologies for what will be quite a long post :D
I plan on moving home early next year and have been investigating options for lighting/heating control which will allow me to tweak when I have some free time. This has led me to this site where I discovered Idratek kit.

My current system consists of a DIY approach, built using Node Red (https://nodered.org/). This gives me control over my Zwave network, multi room audio, linux media PCs, RGB LEDs etc. My lighting is currently controlled via Fibaro (Zwave) modules combined with momentary switches. Currently there's no central heating control but overall everything is working quite smoothly and very easy to extend.

Although the 'new' house has somewhat satisfactory wiring, light switches are not where I'd like them, lights are simple hanging pendant types in every room and the sockets are lacking significantly. Figured it would be a good time to get it rewired with some home automation in mind, especially considering the decor leaves a lot to be desired.

I see three possible options for the new place:

  • Continue using Fibaro dimmer/switch modules
  • Loxone (expensive!)
  • Idratek


Initial investigation of Idratek looks like it could potentially tie into my existing control system fairly easily with some bridging of APIs (likewise for Loxone too), I'd really like to not reconfigure the whole system with another provider given how many hours I have put into the existing system.

But there's a few questions to see how workable this would be:

1) I'll be getting a qualified electrician in to run cables/connect everything up
1a) Can I run the CatX leads to momentary light switches myself under current UK regs to cut down on install costs?
1b) Can I connect these CatX leads to the dimmer/relay modules from Idratek or does that need to be connected by a qualified electrician?
1c) What information will they need with regards to wiring up dimmers/relays? It all seems fairly straightforward based on the information I have read so far.
1d) Or do I need someone who has had training with Idratek installs?
2) Assuming I need IPD-001 at the core of my setup to power the dimmers/relays DIN modules or are they self powering from their 240v input?
3) Using the dimmer (QLD-001) and relays (QRI-002), can these be configured to act independently if the rest of the system fails. For example Input 1 would increase brightness on output 1, input 2 would decrease brightness on output 1.
4) Can this 'simple' configuration be taken a step further without a Cortex controller where a input module (ODI-002) would allow input 1 to turn off all outputs on a dimmer module configured using Reflex?
6) What happened to the radiator actuator AXT-111?
7) Assuming other low voltage radiator actuators can be used with Idratek, but given they typically run at 24v and Idratek seems to be 14v how would the wiring be configured?
8) Regarding APIs
8a) Can I send/receive RS232 commands without Cortex to control devices on the Idranet? (Assuming not seeing as theres a lack of documentation on this)
8b) Does Cortex have any sort of network based API allowing me granular control over my devices? I'd like to be able to say Dimmer 1 to 50%, Dimmer 2 to 75% for example.

Thanks :)

New Evohome plumbing issues

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Hi,

I've been reading this forum for a while and read lots before having my Evohome installed. Getting it installed was a mission in itself, but that's another story. Anyway, as far as I understand (and my understanding is limited, so please accept my apologies), my system is installed correctly and a quick snapshot is as follows:

S-Plan system - stored hot water, zone valve for UFH and HW. All radiators fitted with HR92 controllers. ABV fitted next to boiler. New boiler and unvented cylinder installed along with one additional radiator. From an Evohome perspective, I think everything is functioning as it should. Zones start/stop and follow the schedule as I expect. There are some minor niggles, but nothing that isn't documented on here already.

My issues are plumbing related. I appreciate this forum is about heating control, but if anyone can offer advice, that would be helpful.

Issue no.1
My system has a fair bit of air in it following installation and so to resolve this, I have been removing the HR92's and ramping the system up for 30 mins odd and then allowing to cool before bleeding. The system still has air in it despite bleeding the radiators many times. Whilst doing this, I noticed that two radiators (porch and study) do not get hot at all. After doing some investigation, I found that a branch situated within a wardrobe went from hot to cold at an elbow. My plumber suggested there may be an airlock and so after refitting the HR92's, I sent heat only to the two affected radiators and they worked as expected.

Last night, I tried firing up all rads again using the aforementioned technique and again the porch and study rads did not get hot at all. Do you think there is an airlock, or is it that the system needs to be better balanced to allow water pressure to reach these two radiators? The fact that a pipe went from hot to cold with no obvious reason I guess would suggest an airlock. Why would this keep happening? In normal usage situations i.e. when heating zonally, this doesn't occur, it only seems to be when ramping up all rads that it is an issue. Surely this is crucial for effectively removing air from the system though?

Issue no.2
My second issue is much more irritating. The pipe entering the HR92 side of one of the landing radiators vibrates intensely for about 2-3 minutes numerous times during the middle of the night (and in the day). My (uneducated) opinion is that when this happens, the boiler is still running and the rest of the HR92's are closed or thereabouts and this build up of pressure causes the vibration. Opening the HR92 on this particular radiator alleviates the issue and last night I ended up leaving it 3/4 open (and red hot) until morning so that we could sleep. This radiator would usually be off overnight. This stop gap solution isn't ideal, as due to aforementioned air in the system, the radiator isn't as discreet as it could be at 3am when warm water is being pumped around.

My understanding is that the ABV should release this additional pressure caused in situations where all valves are closed? I have a Honeywell ABV and set to 0.3/0.4 (as I understand is about right), which makes no difference.

Can anyone offer any advice on these issues? It's tricky to keep hassling my plumber, as he is a family friend and has two kids of his own and I don't want to trouble him. I've already been in contact about lots of smaller niggles. If remedial work is needed, I will of course contact him, I just want to see if it's something I'm doing wrong before bothering him again.

Thanks

Help needed re: Evohome actuator faults and email notifications

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I have Evohome installed in my house and also in my mother's house who lives an hour away. It's been very useful for me to monitor her heating remotely and make adjustments where necessary, as she had no experience of central heating until a year ago and quite frankly doesn't understand how it works and would never cope with the concept of having a thermostat.

Both systems have thrown up various comms fault errors in the last 12 months but I haven't spent a lot of time investigating them as they haven't stopped the system from working and we haven't really had the heating on until recently anyway, but 2 days ago my mother calls to say the bathroom radiator isn't coming on and when I look on the app, that actuator isn't reporting a temperature, just "--".

I've taken the batteries out of an HR92 here to try and replicate the problem. It took about 3 hours to register the comms fault on the controller, which surprised me a little but now it's also showing "--" so perhaps batteries are all it will be.

Is there anything more I can do remotely to diagnose the problem before I go to my mother's and check it out?

The other issue I have is that I set up immediate email notification for error reporting from both locations, but haven't received any emails about these faults.
I did however get an email alert a couple of weeks ago telling me I attempted to remotely implement a change to a zone, when in fact I hadn't done anything with the controller that day!
Is email notification reliable and is there more I can do with the app or the system setup to make sure I'm notified if there's a fault?

Considering Evohome

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Hi,

I'm slowly applying smart technology to my house, so far, I've automated some lighting (indoor and out), ventilation systems for bathrooms and underfloor electric heating.

The one thing I would like to have more control over are my heating bills. I live in a fairly large 4 bedroom detached house which is all heated when the boiler is on; I can control rooms by turning the TRV's down but that would be a pain ;-)

Honeywell Evohome seems to be the way to go...

I wondered if those whom have Evohome have any suggestions, learnings and experiences or things they wish they'd have known prior to committing themselves to the system.

Thanks

EvoHome priorities

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I now have four ways to control my EvoHome, so never know why the temperature is where it is.

There is:
1. The EvoHome controller (pre-WiFi model, so no local override indicator)
2. Local override
3. Phone app
4. IFTTT from HomeSeer on the PC

It would take ages to work out which takes priority over which. Has anyone already done the research, or does anyone know of anything that explains it?

The immediate questions I have are:
If someone locally overrides, will the schedule stop working on that radiator? Or would IFTTT? Or the phone app?
If I set a room permanently to 5 degrees, because we won't be using the room for a week or so, will IFTTT change it when I cancel a quick action? (it seems to, sometimes, but I cant work out the pattern)

Have tried to find this with google, but without success

First Light Switch - Help pretty please so lost!

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Good Evening Guys,

I have my controller all setup ready to go (Home Assistant running on Raspberry pi with Aeontec USB Gen5) I have been messing around with non-zwave abilities of the system however the wife has instructed me to go ahead and get the first z-wave automation sorted which happens to be our garden light.

Now this light is a traditional light with a weird build (I don't want to change that at this time) and its controlled by a switch indoors, however, this switch has 3 switches on it:

IMG_20161102_184808.jpg

The first switch controls the outside light. The second switch controls the downstairs hallway lights (there is also another switch that controls these lights) and the third switch controls the upstairs landing lights (again another switch upstairs also controls these lights)

Behind the switch there is an earth cable then for switch one it looks like a red and blue cable connected together and a yellow. The second switch two reds connected together and a blue and the third switch has a yellow and a red cable. (Unless I am not understanding what cables are for what switch):

IMG_20161102_184945.jpg

IMG_20161102_184938.jpg

So what I would like is a 3-way switch that I can connect each of those loads to. I want to retain a physical switch of some description for switching the loads on and off but also the ability to use z-wave to switch the lights on and off. Does anyone have any suggestions pretty please?

Second part of this question is the downstairs and upstairs lights also have additional switches do these have to be upgraded to z-wave switches at the same time or can I leave them as manual old-fashion switches for now:

IMG_20161102_184747.jpg

IMG_20161102_184752.jpg

Any help is VERY MUCH appreciated thanks. Really lost as to what I need. I have so many ideas to try and achieve but I need to get over this first hurdle.


Thanks,
Max

Anyone near East/West Sus***?

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Hi again everyone,

I was wondering if there is anyone that lives in East Sus*** or near by? If you do would you be interested in letting me pop round so you can show off your home automation. Particularly interested in z-wave set-ups and even more so if your controller is either Home Assistant / Vera / HomeSeer or Samsung SmartThings.

I want to see what you have done and hear your feedback as to how it went thoughts and tips.

Thanks,
Max

Balancing and delta T with a Modulating Pump

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Firstly apologies for asking a question similar to that which many have asked before.

Trying to balance my system and achieve a reasonable delta T to get more condensing but just confusing myself at the moment despite lots of reading and research.

I have an Ideal Vogue system boiler in a conventional S plan with the central heating 2 way valve latched open.

The majority of the radiators (15 in total) are controlled via HR92s with the hall and landing still on traditional TRVs and the bathroom towel rad on two lockshields to act as a system by-pass when all the TRVs are closed. The rads are a mixture of sizes but are all of modern design.

The problem I have is that in order to get a reasonable temperature drop on most of my rads (approx. 10°C – not even trying for 20°C) the lockshields end up almost fully closed – they have a full range of approx. 1and ¾ turns and most end up say 1/16 to 1/8th open.

This would be fine but I then end up with quite a lot of radiator noise, especially as the house warms up and TRVs/HR92s start closing. The boiler has a modulating pump so I thought it might compensate as the TRVs close and therefore prevent the noise but it seems to run at 100% when it gets to this stage, not sure why, maybe needs the extra pressure in order to achieve a minimum flow rate via the open rads as the other TRVs close.

It occurred to me that if I just open up all the lockshields to say 1 turn open then maybe the pump would modulate and lower the pressure whilst achieving the same flow rate.

This has made the system virtually silent and I’ve had no problems with rads being starved of heat (the system is made up of 28, 22 and 15mm pipe as things gradually tee off so probably provides a reasonable inherent balance regardless of lockshield settings).

The pump however still seems to spend most of the time running at 100% and I’m not getting good temperature drops across most of the radiators. I thought the pump might adjust to try and achieve a reasonable delta T and therefore opening up the lockshields would allow the pump to run at say 60% instead of 100% most of the time.

The pump is largely automatic, I can change it from min to max modulation in the settings but this doesn’t seem to make any difference.

I therefore seem to be in a catch 22 situation – either retain a reasonable delta T (and more condensing) at the expense of having system noise (and I suppose extra power used by pump) or vice versa.

Is there something I’m missing here? Maybe I need a 'proper' ABV rather than using the towel rad (along with the boiler inbuilt ABV) but I really don't fancy draining the system down and breaking into the pipework to do this.

Any tips would be appreciated.

EVOHome WIFI Password problem

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Hi all,

I've a very strange problem with the wifi conenction of my EVOHome WIFI thermostat.

On 8/11 night I noticed the clock of my EvoHome Wifi thermostat was stuck at 20.35 (8.35pm CET) instead of indicating the correct time that was 21.12 (9.12pm CET).
I disabled the automatic update feature and manually set the clock to the correct time 9.12pm CET but it was still stuck at the new time. Thus thinking about a problem with the update from the network (even if I had disabled it) I have disconnected my thermostat from the WIFI network and set again manually the correct time but it was again stuck.
All the features of the thremostat were working fine and it was responsive but of course the scheduling was not working correctly anymore.

Then I decided to reconnect the EvoHome to the WIFI network and I got the following very strange problem:
It is impossible to set my wifi network password.
The password request panel now accepts only passwords that are exactly 5, 10, 13 or 26 character long (I didn't try longer). The "Ok" symbol on the bottom right becomes green and clickable only for passwords of those lenghts. In all the other cases it remains gray.
My password is 8 character long so I can't set it.

I first installed and connected the thermostat to my wifi network on last september with no problems and I didn't disconect it till now.

My firmware versions are:
Application Software Version: 01.00.02.01
WiFi Software Version: 01.00.02.00

One strange thing is that the subsequent morning I found the thermostat with the right time set without being connected to the network. Thus the clock problem desappeared in some unknown way but the WIFI problem still persists.

Cheers,
Giorgio

Problem zone

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My smallest room (downstairs loo) is having problems with temperature regulation.

This is the temp as recorded by the HR92:

IMG_0260.jpg

And here's how open the valve is as it tries to compensate:

IMG_0261.jpg

I've tried resetting the zone, making the HR92 recalibrate, etc.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Like I said, the room is small but so is the radiator. I think the HR92 is just struggling to compute the amount of heat needed to keep a constant temperature.
Attached Images

temperature settings for evohome

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Dear all,

This is more of a generic question rather than one that is specific to evoHome. I've had evoHome running for a good week now, and as of yesterday have now fitted all rads in the house with HR92s, creating 8 zones in total.

I'm monitoring gas and electricity usage with Loop and use evologger to log actual / target temperatures for all zones. I use a slighly modified version of pyloopenergy to log gas / electricity to a spreadsheet as well, and am now able to offset evoHome demands and gas usage, which is really interesting.

I'm looking at chrisgare's graphs in envy (here) - my gas usage is jumping all over the place - and I think this boils back down to the fundamental question of "is it more efficient to keep the house at an acceptable base temperature, rather than letting it cool down completely in the night and heating it back up in the morning"...

I'll use my worst room as an example. The graph attached is the dining room, which was built as an extension to the house many years ago. It has two outside walls, has a big window and a set of French doors, and is generally the coldest room in the house full stop.

From the graph you can see how the heating goes off at around 8 PM. In evoHome I've set the zone to 10 deg during the night and the room gradually cools down until it reaches 13.5 degrees. The schedule for this room should heat it up to 20 deg for 8AM. You can see how optimum start kicks in at around 7. It then takes a full two hours for the room to come up to about 19 degrees.

So I guess the question is - would I be better off not letting the temperature drop that low in the night and set it at a constant 16 for instance? Everybody I have spoken to so far has a different opinion :) I'd be very interested to hear everybody's thoughts on this...

Many thanks - Martin
Attached Images

X10 Din rail dimmer + GU10 LED lamps...dimming question

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Hi All,

I replaced all my GU10 wall light lamps today with Philips GU10 LED's. They are very nice especially when a 3 pack only cost £5.49!

The issue I have is that I can't get them to dim down far enough. Is that an issue with the X10 DIN rail module or the lamps?

Cheers
Daz

Adjusting the Boiler Cycle time? Boiler cycling every 10mins.

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At night we keep only our room & our young son's room on/monitored via the Radiator HR92s.

In our bedroom the heat from the two of us generally keeps the room above the 18 degrees we set it at, but our son's room does need constant top ups throughout the night - most nights.

This means the boiler is cycling on/off every 10 minutes for maybe 1 minute to boost the heat.

I am concerned that our new Worcester Bosch boiler is going to suffer with this very regular cycling. I figured at 6 times an hour, for 10 hours for weeks on end is a *lot* of on/offs - something most appliances don't like.

Should I be worried about this? Is it worth increasing the 10 minutes to 15mins and sacrificing some of the Evohome control for the sake of the boiler longevity?

Cheers :)

S Plan with Opentherm setup

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Good morning,

I was wondering if anyone may be able to assist me- My current system is an S Plan design with two Honeywell valves, hot water cylinder and Viessman 100 boiler. Current controls is a Salut IT500 wireless thermostat
Am going to convert to the full Evohome system- Hot water kit, HR92s on all rads, Opentherm Bridge. I am going to manually lock open my CH valve and keep my two towel rails with standard TRVS to allow them to heat up when the hot water is on (The wife will be pleased).
Couple of questions.
Can the BDR for the hot water be swapped over with the wiring in my current controller? But currently valve opens first on the current setup then boiler/Pump- does this need to be re-configured to get the boiler to fire?

Opentherm- This is where i am most confused- will it call for the boiler to fire up? As in the product description it says:
"Wireless OpenTherm Bridge (R8810) is a replacement of the BDR91 Wireless Relay Box".
Therefore to get my boiler on for CH do i need a BGR91 or will the Opentherm do the job?

The online course gives no mention of the Opentherm Bridge in the setup

Any help would be much appreciated
Jon

Powering RGB Strips

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Investigating the best ways to wire up my new home at the moment. Fairly set on how all the 240v lighting will be configured, but now I'm looking at how best to power/connect RGB strips to the central location where the controller is located.

Cable lengths between the controller and lighting will be between 7-15m. With lengths of RGB strip varying from a few meters to around 6m.
Current PSU used for testing is a Mean Well LPV-60-12.

I see a few ways this could be wired:

  1. 240v fused spur located close to RGB strip, 240v > 12v PSU, LED RGB amplifier. Cat 5e cable run to central location to carry PWM signals
  2. 240v > 12v DIN PSU at central location, LED RGB amplifier located close to strip. 2 core cable for 12v and Cat 5e cable for PWM both run back to central location
  3. 240v > 12v DIN PSU at central location, LED RGB amplifier located at central location. 4 core cable for 12v run back to central location


To help prevent voltage drop, solution 1 would probably be best but likely to cost more to install due to requiring an electrician to install multiple fused spurs. But the other solutions could be costly too.

Few questions

  • Any other possible solutions?
  • Which approach, if any is mostly used in professional installs?
  • What sort of 2/4 core cable could be used to power the strips from a central location considering voltage drop over longer runs?
  • Assuming theres little difference in usability between solutions 2/3 besides the need to run an additional cable?
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